[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle?

Ahmad Samir ahmadsamir3891 at gmail.com
Fri Oct 15 06:32:13 CEST 2010


On 15 October 2010 04:48, Fernando Parra <gato2707 at yahoo.com.mx> wrote:
> Hi everybody.
>
> I feel that the concept of a new way, as it exist into my mind is not completely understood. Let me try to re-explain again. Please be patient and excuses any mistake with my English (I'm totally out of practice):
>
> I'm talking about to liberate to novice/novel/without experience user, about concepts like backports, but I'm not talking about close/disappear/eliminate/forgot backports.
>
> Why? because a big share of them will arrive from a very different environment (especially windows), and as you now, in there those concepts are not only estrange, they simply don't exists.
> When a Windows user wants/needs to update a program, as much the only thing that he/she must do is unninstall the old/previous version and then install the new one.
>
> What programs? Following the same idea, about these kind of users, we should ask: what programs they usually upgrade? The answer could be found asking to the user's themselves, but certainly could be another ways.
>
> Why not all backports? Reason 1: Because a lot of them don't care about the new version of CUPS (in example) or the new version of Maxima (I'm sure there are a lot clearly examples).
> Reason 2: Because there are packages that may causes some incidents after upgrade them.
>
> How we can solve this situation? Offering a default automatic upgrade for a small group of packages, especially when they change in an important way, in example Firefox 3.6x 3.6x+ or to 4.x
>
> With this in mind:
>
>> What aspects of the Mandriva backports solution are not satisfactory?
>
>> -The fact that not everything is available as a backport?
>
> Not all are in backports, more these users don't want/understand a big share of them
>
>> -That users don't know how to request a backport?
>
> That is true, more, they don't want to learn about that, they only want a new version of their favourite program.
>
>> -That too many backports are available?
>
> This is matter of who are revising backports, for novice? Yes there are to many. For the geek or the expert? Maybe never there will enough of them.
>
>> -That all users don't get them by default?
>> -That users doing network installs by default don't get the backport on
>> initial installation?
>
> No, they are not get them if we will use a potentially problematic repository.
>
>> -That users aren't aware of backports?
>> -Something else?
>
> Panic? Fear? Baal, Luzbel and other demons in their minds?
>
>> Technically speaking?
>> Less than 'urpmi --searchmedia Backports chromium' ?
>
> If I was a novice my answer will be: What hell is that?
>
>> Again, before we can decide what *more* we should do (what significant
>> resources we need to commit), maybe we should first understand why the
>> existing features (which have significant effort behind them) are not
>> resulting in user satisfaction.
>
> More and more reasons to prepare very carefully our offer. All we here appreciate those efforts and there are no way to send them to trash
>
>> Personally I think a poll without educating everyone about what exactly
>> each choice would mean is useless. We first need to elaborate detailed
>> alternatives before anyone can make an informed choice.
>
> IMHO, a democracy without education is not democracy, is populism. I agree at all, we need first elaborate a well structured alternatives and then, explicitly after inform and educate our community we can run a poll, or prepare a council, or any other appropriated way.
>
>> backports should be supported for security patches and bug fixes just like
>> the main packages (if not instead of the main packages).
>> Of course the security patch could be simply provided by backporting a
>> newer version of the package, no need to make patches for each version.
>
> That is essential, any upgrade must be supported (other valid reason for an small group of packages).
>
>> What I mean is basically when new updates get presented (which would
>> include new backports) the user could untick specific packages (as is
>> possible now) but also have a second tick-box to store the choice
>> permanently in the skip.list.
>> This would give the user more choice of which packages he wants to always
>> update to the newest version and wich ones he/she prefers to keep frozen
>> at the same version.
>
> Please try to explain that to my grandma, or maybe you could be lucky with some of my students.
>
>> New users who frequented the forums always got to know what backports
>> are pretty fast. And bugzilla is the perfect system for asking for a
>> backport, that worked pretty good.
>
> These users are walking to change into intermediate users, they are no longer basic users. This only for the simple fact that they are posting in a technical forum. Let me remind you: 1,300 millions of Hispanics and only 130 votes at the BlogDrake poll.
>
>> I was thinking about writing a proposal as you suggested, but so far I
>> haven't found the time.
>> I don't think this is that urgent, since backports only become an issue
>> once we have the first release out, but I will try to write up a
>> proposal well before that.
>
> I'm writing a proposal as Tux99 does, I need find time for finish it and then translate it.
>
> Regards from México
> --
> Fernando Parra <gato2707 at yahoo.com.mx>
>

Your reply doesn't show whom you're quoting. Please pay more attention
to show whom you're quoting when quoting others' posts :)

-- 
Ahmad Samir


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