[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle?

Fernando Parra gato2707 at yahoo.com.mx
Mon Oct 18 02:56:30 CEST 2010

On Sun, 17 Oct 2010 01:01:27 -0400
andré <andr55-QFKgK+z4sOrR7s880joybQ at public.gmane.org> wrote:

> With Mandriva and thus initially Mageia, often one only has to select 
> the new version, and the old version is automatically removed.  
> Otherwise the old version can be removed later.  So we already have it 
> easier :)

I agree, our way is better, but its still strange for the new users

> This is simply not advisable.  In the event of a problem resulting from 
> an automatic update, the user will have no idea what was done.  So how 
> easy will it be to support the user in such a case ?  All changes should 
> be expressly confirmed (or specifically requested) by the user.

I never wrote something like an automatic and forced upgrade, automatic means that the upgrade must be offered by the SO as soon as a new version is available for its download.

All here will consider it as an offence of course, and invasion to the user space. Therefore it can be result in a law suite.

I despise the way MS applies the updates to operating system, because when you install Windows remains as the default option to automatically download and install all updates. If you want to change, it must be done manually.

> They will only likely want a new version of their favorite program if 
> they know it is available.  Which they will probably discover via backports.

Again, nobody is trying to kill backports. Question: if the backports repository was browsed by a draktool that only search for the Rolling Light Apps, and offer the updates available, would this be a problem? 
> Agree 100%.  The presentation definitely needs improvement.
> Obviously the novice user would use Rpmdrake via the MCC.
> And Rpmdrake definitely needs improvement.

100% with you, MCC needs and urgent improvement. As an examples we can see the Apple, Google and Ubuntu equivalent tools. I'm pretty sure we can do a better job.

> It's not just creating the update that costs, also due to these changing 
> dependancies, dealing with bugs on various installations of the release 
> in question becomes much more problematic.  Installing a backport is 
> generally more stable than installing a new version.

100% with you, more than that, we need take in count the panic caused by the installation of the complete OS.

Linux experienced users take this practice as a regular one, but anyone who has had to reinstall Windows with all previous applications, a process known to be hell, slow, tedious and often risky

> I think that all updates should be specifically confirmed.  Otherwise, 
> it's a bit like driving a car blind-folded, and later wondering why one 
> had an accident.
> It is a good idea to tag updates as "security", "recommended", etc.
> Implicitly, an advanced user is more likely to decide otherwise.
> But anyone who is intelligent enough to use a computer should be 
> respected enough to at least confirm updates.

The Ubuntu's automatic update tool has this functionality, but it has not a choice for permanently forget an a package in particular (as Mandriva too, only not obviously).

I causes, that every day an update not initially desired appear in the invitation window.

As an example in Mandriva One 2010.1 there is installed by default "tracker" this tool demands a lot of time and resources. Well there are a lot of recommendations for to inhibit this tool, I did it, but since last week every morning I see the invitation to update "tracker"

Anyway I suggest two different apps / ways / other. Why? Because it will be a better experience for the user. 

There a lot of recommended updates as well as security updates, some weeks 2 or 3, that is good of course, but it can be converted in a routine, again nobody reads. I know users that never update their SO, why? because it's a tedious job (¿?)

IMHO an elegant different window or globe indicative of a new version of program "XWZ" should be a great opportunity for say: We are here, we are pending of your needs.

> And you didn't train your users ?  From personal experience, most users 
> learn quickly to copy error messages that appear on the screen - even 
> those who initially seem totally inept.  I regularly trained users who 
> initially required a lot of hand-holding to let me reliably troubleshoot 
> by telephone.  But it does take a little patience.
> Of course, novice home users will be more problematic, since they will 
> often use the computer much less.

Well it depends in a lot of factors, Corporative rules is one of them, but there a lot more.

Think in a novice user (maybe a young grandma), totally tired of crashes and malware, suddenly he/she reads in a blog about Mageia. She go to an cafe Internet and obtain a DVD installed on the laptop. Weeks later he/she are at an error situation.

What kind of training he/she has? he/she acts as always, try, and try again, and when finally looks outside, his/her behaviour could be as described above.

Thanks for your comments.

Regards from México.

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