[Mageia-dev] installing minimal is not really that minimal

[Anne nicolas]

2012/3/22 Thierry Vignaud <thierry.vignaud at gmail.com>:
> On 22 March 2012 09:31, You-Cheng Hsieh <yochenhsieh at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> note that having a couple x11 package is not installing x11.
>>> I've made the minimal install quite a lot smaller.
>>>
>>> We still have issues with suggests that makes installation explodes.
>>> I've reports some bugs but maintainers just don't care.
>>> See eg: https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=4357 that got
>>> reaffected to me because the maintainer doesn't care about
>>> bloating the install
>>> This particular one isn't about minimal install but about gnome install
>>> but the underlying issue will bloats any minimal install + light desktop
>>> + _one_ gtk+ application.
>>>
>> Both gnome-keyring and task-gnome are maintained by nobody, could you
>> modify the spec and close the bug?
>
> I've made quite some changes for mga2 in order to bring minimal
> install under control.
> But that can't work in the long term.
> I'ven't enough time & I cannot do it alone.
> I did it twice back @mdv and yet people keep introduced new interesting
> ways to bloat again.
>
> I don't want to imply Olav did it. But he's packager of one of the offending
> packages, and so inherited part of mdv heritage.
> So I wrote a bug about it in order to pull maintainers in.
>
> Every packager should be made aware of Implications of:
> - suggests
> - library requiring the tools they were created for
>
> It's easy to add a suggest ("hey it'll just make the user experience better"),
> but eventually the suggested package can start a cycles that will pull
> quite a lot more packages.
>
> See https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=4357#c5
> systemd was initially pulling:
> - the whole gtk+ stack,
> - openldap,
> - avahi,
> - gamin,
> - fuse,
> - colord,
> - gnome-keyring,
> - seahorse,
> - dirmngr
> - python
>
> And none of it (but python) has actually to do with systemd.
> It was just that required library actually suggest or requires another one
> which also suggested or required ...
>
> Everyone should be concerned about that.
>
> I've broke some requires/suggest cycles, but I cannot do it alone,
> everyone should contribute (and also should try not to introduce
> new ones)
>
> I think that some of those "comfort" suggests should be moved
> from some low level library or tool package to task-<desktop>
> packages.
>
> Thus no I won't fix every issue.
> People have to test install and have to get interested in reducing
> size of install.
> This is not a personal attack against Olav that does a good job.
> That means for everyone to get in the implications of requires &
> suggests.
> Not looking only at that particular package but at the global view,
> the installed system.
>
> Not all suggests will bloat installing from DVD as some won't make
> it into the DVD image. But some will b/c they're required by other
> packages and thus will succeed in being suggested.
>
> Minimal install won't be as perfect as installing basesystem with urpmi
> because of installer also pulling packages needed for HW (eg: LVM,
> SMP, bluetooth, ...)
>
> At least for mga2, it's has been reduced.
> But it could be more.
>
> Also installing a desktop (GNOME & KDE) is huge these days.
> Something should be made about it.
> Maybe splitting task-{gnome,kde}-networking and the like and moving
> them under CAT_NETWORK, CAT_OFFICE, CAT_GAMES, CAT_INTERNET,
> CAT_MULTIMEDIA and the like in rpmsrate.
>
> But this is the job of everyone.
> Not just me.
>
> My 2 cents

Thanks for your proposal. But anyway this is for Mageia 3. Could we
please calm down and focus again on coming release? We do have work
enough for everybody :)

Cheers

-- 
Anne
http://www.mageia.org