[Mageia-discuss] Thank you - Merci - Danke - Gracias - Grazie - Obrigado - спасибо

Marc Paré marc at marcpare.com
Wed Sep 22 18:11:25 CEST 2010

Le 2010-09-22 10:41, Michael Scherer a écrit :
> Le mardi 21 septembre 2010 à 16:53 -0400, Marc Paré a écrit :
>> Would it make sense to also have a section for "mageia" domain owners to
>> track domain owners who are willing to cooperate? You will eventually
>> have to do this anyway. I would also consider this also a type of offer
>> of cooperation and help.
> Personally, I think we should not collect all domain names to give them
> to the association :

The offer was to pass on the domain if the Mageia project wanted to have 
it. It adds flexibility

> 1) each domain name will need admin time. Either to manage ( ie, set up
> vhost, setup the zone, add a entry to the zone etc ), or to renew. While
> renewing 1 domain name every year is easy, renewing 10 or 20 on 10 to 20
> different resellers, for different prices and so on will be quite
> annoying.

When passing off a domain, the reseller is transferred. You then 
consolidate all under on reseller. I do this all the time.

> 2) this will also generate work for people in charge of comptability,
> and we know that people doing the work of a CFO are a scarce ressources
> ( CFO may not be the proper word, but I didn't found better ).

You set a pointer to the main site and there is no need to use the other 
domain names if you do not wish.

> 3) too much domain name will cost money. I think that what ever we have,
> money would likely better used everywhere than domain name.

Yes you are right. Which is why some of us registered and are willing to 
offer these back to the Mageia project if it wishes. If the Mageia 
project wishes these, then the project will have to build this into its 
business model. The same would have applied if the Mageia project had 
decided from the outset to purchase all of the necessary TLD'S. The 
project would've had to budget this into its working 
organizational/financial model.

> Next it depend on what we do for the domain, but basically, either it is
> use for http, or for mail.

Mostly for http redirect at first. It depends on the needs.

> If we use for http :
> 4) too much domain will be a pain from a ssl point of view. If we start
> to need ssl for a site, and there is 10 Vhost for it, we will just have
> 10 time the work to renew certificates.

Not applicable if you redirect the domains. You would then only have to 
establish certificates for those domains that you intend to use.

> 5) too much domain will also requires more work for simple http, since
> we will have lots of them.

Not applicable if you set a pointer. This will also depend on the amount 
of website developers help who have signed up.

> 6) too much different url will just mean more confusion. I may also fear
> this could be seen by major search engine as unethic SEO, and thus be
> punished ( since link farm is a commonly used technic to try to hijack
> some keywords ). But Google, Yahoo and Bing systems are closed source,
> so I do not know.

This is not unethic as all business on the internet do this as common 
practice. Try to type in URL's for any major corporation, or Yahoo!, 
Google, Bing etc.

> If we use for mail :
> 7) too much domain will simply mean more spam. If we offer multiple
> email ( like "example at mageia.org, and .de, and .fr and .cn, and so on ),
> email will simply appear in more list, and therefore be more spammed.

Domains do not have to be activated for mail. If a domain is not 
activated for mail service then the mail bounces back to the sender. 
This is done all of the time.

> 8) too much domain will simply mean more work. Again, if we use every
> domain for mail be it a multi domain alias, or worst, let the choice, we
> will need to take this in account in lots of place in the information
> system, and this will mean more work, more complexity, more fragility.

You have already covered these points up above. #8 is not a new point.

> 9) and of course, too much domain name, like for websites will mean more
> confusion.

It means less confusion. mageia.org will lead to main site; mageia.ca 
does lead to main site; magiea.nl would lead to main site; mageia.net 
would lead to main site; mageia.info would lead to main site ... How 
would this be confusing?

> And finally, as I said before, we had a hard time finding a name because
> because all the good one have been already used ( or trademarked ).
> While people do not frivolously trademark name ( too costly ), there is
> lots of domain name that are taken and finally unused. So by acting like
> the others, we are simply causing trouble to others internet users. A
> web site about magic trick could perfectly use mageia.tld without
> causing trouble to us. A restaurant, anything could also do it.

By Trademarking and adopting/registering the domain names attached to 
your trademark you are actually doing what would be expected of a good 
solid business model that Banks would like to see for example, load 
applications as well as for grants where government would see a well 
organized domain tree and trademarked name.

By doing business the way that you advocate, you actually lower the 
fidelity that one would assume of a serious group.

> So
> 10) by registering every possible variation, we are acting selfishly
> toward others netizens.

You have already covered these points up above with #9. #10 is not a new 

> So I do not really see what having lots of domain name would bring.
> Maybe I do not see because I am root on the main dns server, maybe
> because I already have my own domain name since so long time, I do not
> know.

I am not root on a DNS server but have owned domain names for a while 
like you have and hold a different view than yours.

> The only answer I got was about security. But seriously, security of
> what ? Protecting from people doing phishing ? Bank already fail at
> this, and you think we can ?

Who mentioned security? This is all about flexibility.

> Protecting from people misusing the name ? there is trademark laws and
> various others way ( not to mention that I do not see much to misuse at
> the moment ).

You will be of a different opinion once your trademark application has 
been approved.

> And frankly, there is too much variation beside top level domain to be
> exhaustive to protect anything.

It is not a matter of registering ALL permutations. It is a matter of 
having at one's disposal more of the mageia.XXX domains if at all 
possible. This will give you more web presence for name branding purposes.

> So for the 10 reasons I gave, and because I see almost no benefit, I
> think the association shouldn't manage so much domains. I cannot prevent
> people from renting them, but my 2 last point ( 9 and 10 ) still apply,

You have 8 points in your list and my reasoning to go along with these 8.

Discussions and exchange of ideas are always a healthy act.



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