[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection
yorick_ at openoffice.org
Mon Oct 18 00:30:36 CEST 2010
On Sunday 17 Oct 2010 20:43:41 andré wrote:
> Graham Lauder a écrit :
> > On Thursday 14 Oct 2010 06:39:32 Wolfgang Bornath wrote:
> >> 2010/10/13 Marc Paré<marc at marcpare.com>:
> >>> I think Graham is trying to voice (I agree with him at this point) is
> >>> that the marketing/communications committee is working through steps
> >>> that lead to branding suggestions. We are almost done with the
> >>> groundwork and holding off a bit would help us in completing and
> >>> presenting our suggestions.
> >> As I wrote I do agree as well.
> >>> This is not a case of branding a targeted group at this point but the
> >>> overall flavour of the Mageia brand.
> >> Uh, sorry, I thought he wrote "identifying target markets", may be I
> Indeed he did
Indeed I did, but to create a brand, you need to identify target markets.
There could be dozens and in fact I've identified about six that I think that
we could be successful in. That does not mean we somehow automatically
exclude all others, but identifying them means we can shape our brand to suit.
Right now, after discussions, our initial target market is likely to be a
technical market to expand our contributor community. This market is
completely different from the "Family" market that seemed to upset so many
people, so the branding for these two groups is likely to be completely
different. Our work continues.
> >> did not read it right? I am not talking about the time when this will
> >> be done but rather voice another warning about being too restrictive
> >> while doing that "indentifying target markets", whenever that will be.
> >> I still remember the previous discussion about such restrictive
> >> targets as "young couples" and the like, basing the procedure on
> >> demographic statistics of certain parts of the world.
> > Ack and I swore I wasn't going to get into this discussion again because
> > it's like talking to a brick wall ...
> Excuse us if we have the same impression
My problem was that I am only one person, I figured that having to come back
to the lists and explain myself repeatedly is not a profitable (for Mageia)
use of my time. It appears however that I'm going to have to make the effort
and I apologise for my shortness.
> > However, you still stubbornly hold to the view that somehow, by a piece
> > of grand magic that nobody else in the business world has ever managed
> > to do, unless they are a monopoly, we can come up with something that
> > suits everyone in the world of all ages. Tell us what that secret is
> > because you'll be able to sell it for millions. Usually the people who
> > say this are in reality saying "Everybody in MY demographic"
> Somehow you sound like you think you that Mageia can be marketed like
> This isn't fantasy island. And Linux and computers aren't gimmicks.
I'm not sure how you come to this conclusion, marketing is not fantasy, quite
the opposite. The reason that the successful companies are successful is
because of marketing. They do their market research, they come to conclusions
which inform their marketing plan and they Brand to suit.
> > The reality is: We are going into a saturated market, there are hundreds
> > of distros out there, the successful ones have identified their target
> > markets and branded to that market, The major competitor works
> > effectively in a Monopolistic atmosphere while still spending $US500
> > million annually on marketing and you think they don't target markets!
> Sure. Their target market is anyone who thinks that they might want a
> computer. Or any company that might want to sell one. And the many
> thousands of politicians easily swayed by campaign contributions ...
> (It worked in Massachusetts.)
One of MS's advantages is they are established as a virtual monopoly. They
started off with a very tight target market, a market of one: IBM. Then they
expanded to young techie users, then educational institutions but all along
their main marketing thrust was B2B. Their idea was to create software that
allowed hardware manufacturers to add value to their hardware and they
expanded their market from that. Unfortunately for us, They did things really
well in a relatively new market and as a consequence they have managed to
virtually monopolise that market and so the same path is not open to us.
However we can learn from what they did and expanding from a focused market is
one way of doing that. Of course we don't have the financial resources of an
MS or a CocaCola.
And don't get me started on Massachusetts. :)
> > We have been working on publishing the Core Values over the past week or
> > so, that immediately defines a market in and of itself.
> > The families market suggestion was one that came to me because of
> > personal experience in my business in that my most successful instances
> > of selling linux have (after studying results) been in a family
> > environment where the small network support model was functioning.
> > Now in my market then the target would be the Mothers, in Germany,
> > according to your analysis, the Fathers, in each of these markets the
> > upshot of success is 2.4 users, or possibly more if you count 3
> > generations (Or whatever your average family size wherever you are) and
> > an instant local support network (MS's greatest strength).
> > The point is the suggestion was made giving due consideration to a pile
> > of factors including maintaining user base, aka: Brand Loyalty (Kevin
> > Roberts, of Saatchis calls 'Building Love Brands' and he often cites
> > Apple as an example).
> > Now does that mean we are restricting the market, of course not. Apple's
> > target is young, high disposable income, singles. To me that's obvious
> > and I could prove that, but I was told that "Apple Targets everyone"
> > ???? naturally by someone in that demographic.
> Hate to burst your bubble, but in Canada Apple computers biggest market
> penetration is post-secondary students - not exactly a high income group.
It's OK my bubble is intact. :) Secondary students are in fact in this
group, because they tend to be financed by their parents, hence "disposable
income". I'm a parent, any money I give to my kids is disposed of. ;) Also
the demographic is aspirational, so the tendency is for this younger group to
act in a fashion that fits the demographic that they aspire to.
> > Marketing is not witchcraft or voodoo, it's a science and an art form.
> Make up your mind - is it a science, or an art form ?
> It can't be both.
You obviously haven't read Richard Dawkins, :)
Many of the greatest scientists were artists, DaVinci and Newton just off the
top of my head.
> > We need to get on with it and no matter what there is an absolute given:
> > "You cannot please all of the people all of the time"
> > Really, at this point we have a lot of work to do before we define or
> > even identify our target market. When we get to that point any realistic
> > positive alternatives will be well received.
> If Mageia restricts itself to one target market, that's not going to help.
> It needs to reach out in many directions, with many focuses.
> It won't survive without an active contributing community, which means
> in the near and medium term, appealing to current Mandriva users and
> One can *add* various targets, but to centre everything around a
> hypothetical, unproven target is suicide. And no amount of marketing
> mumble jumble will change that.
OK a few things, Linux in all colours is already restricted to 1.5% of the
market, can't get more restricted that. According to the latest Distrowatch
stats there are 317 Linux distributions sharing that 1.5%. Arguably around
80% is shared amongst the top 10. There are 1.5 billion computers out there
give or take, so approx. 22.5 million on linux. Of the remaining 1.47
billion, how many do you think are in homes with families.
In 2003 according to US stats
55% of American homes (62 Million) had a computer That has probably
increased. Homes with over $100,000 income had 95%. Now stats say this is
even higher in Germany, Korea and so forth. In 2002 according to OECD
figures the US was ninth of OECD nations
Of the 112 million American homes therefore, how many had young families in
them? I'm not sure, but lets say that 40% have families, That's around 45
Anyway you begin to get the picture that the "family" market is large and in
fact in the US alone is double the size of total linux installs.
Nothing I'm talking about is hypothetical, drive down any highway, turn on
your TV, open up Google. If you want to avoid being marketed to, switch off
your computer and go bush. The vast majority of the world is informed by
marketing. To do that a vast amount of research is carried out on a daily
basis, if you're willing to pay the money you can have that research delivered
to your inbox several hundred times a day from companies that do nothing else.
They prove consistently that what I'm talking about is correct
In the years I was MD of my own company I would pay that money, not these days
because I'm retired but the point is I have 18 years of history in that role
and that informs what I am promoting here.
Next, You make exactly the point I am trying to get across, you add or expand.
You provide the best possible fit to a particular market and then build your
brand outward from that, but start from a specific market. However what you
are advocating is what I call the subtractive method, you provide "everything
to all" and then you take away bits to suit individual markets, AKA "dumbing
down". That alienates your market, not the best policy.
and last: Dismissing what I do as Mumble Jumble is neither accurate nor
helpful. My assertions are made based in empirical data collected over years
and continue to be collected in both statistics and market demographics,
that's science, the intuitive leap that addresses our marketing plan and
branding to a particular market, that's art.
> Of course, if you want to sell used cars ...
Sales is a different beast altogether, we're talking about marketing
Steve Jobs never sold a single ipod, but by really good marketing he created a
brand profile that allows the sales people to do their job. (Although having
said that there is good argument to be made that in some areas Apple's
marketing has sukt big time, but that's a whole new discussion :) )
OpenOffice.org MarCon (Marketing Contact) NZ
OpenOffice.org Migration and training Consultant.
INGOTs Assessor Trainer
(International Grades in Open Technologies)
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