[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle?

[Fernando Parra]

Hi everybody.

I feel that the concept of a new way, as it exist into my mind is not completely understood. Let me try to re-explain again. Please be patient and excuses any mistake with my English (I'm totally out of practice):

I'm talking about to liberate to novice/novel/without experience user, about concepts like backports, but I'm not talking about close/disappear/eliminate/forgot backports.

Why? because a big share of them will arrive from a very different environment (especially windows), and as you now, in there those concepts are not only estrange, they simply don't exists.
When a Windows user wants/needs to update a program, as much the only thing that he/she must do is unninstall the old/previous version and then install the new one.

What programs? Following the same idea, about these kind of users, we should ask: what programs they usually upgrade? The answer could be found asking to the user's themselves, but certainly could be another ways.

Why not all backports? Reason 1: Because a lot of them don't care about the new version of CUPS (in example) or the new version of Maxima (I'm sure there are a lot clearly examples).
Reason 2: Because there are packages that may causes some incidents after upgrade them.

How we can solve this situation? Offering a default automatic upgrade for a small group of packages, especially when they change in an important way, in example Firefox 3.6x 3.6x+ or to 4.x

With this in mind:

> What aspects of the Mandriva backports solution are not satisfactory?

> -The fact that not everything is available as a backport?

Not all are in backports, more these users don't want/understand a big share of them

> -That users don't know how to request a backport?

That is true, more, they don't want to learn about that, they only want a new version of their favourite program.

> -That too many backports are available?

This is matter of who are revising backports, for novice? Yes there are to many. For the geek or the expert? Maybe never there will enough of them.
 
> -That all users don't get them by default?
> -That users doing network installs by default don't get the backport on 
> initial installation?

No, they are not get them if we will use a potentially problematic repository.

> -That users aren't aware of backports?
> -Something else?

Panic? Fear? Baal, Luzbel and other demons in their minds?

> Technically speaking?
> Less than 'urpmi --searchmedia Backports chromium' ?

If I was a novice my answer will be: What hell is that?

> Again, before we can decide what *more* we should do (what significant 
> resources we need to commit), maybe we should first understand why the 
> existing features (which have significant effort behind them) are not 
> resulting in user satisfaction.

More and more reasons to prepare very carefully our offer. All we here appreciate those efforts and there are no way to send them to trash

> Personally I think a poll without educating everyone about what exactly
> each choice would mean is useless. We first need to elaborate detailed
> alternatives before anyone can make an informed choice.

IMHO, a democracy without education is not democracy, is populism. I agree at all, we need first elaborate a well structured alternatives and then, explicitly after inform and educate our community we can run a poll, or prepare a council, or any other appropriated way. 

> backports should be supported for security patches and bug fixes just like
> the main packages (if not instead of the main packages).
> Of course the security patch could be simply provided by backporting a
> newer version of the package, no need to make patches for each version.

That is essential, any upgrade must be supported (other valid reason for an small group of packages).

> What I mean is basically when new updates get presented (which would
> include new backports) the user could untick specific packages (as is
> possible now) but also have a second tick-box to store the choice
> permanently in the skip.list.
> This would give the user more choice of which packages he wants to always
> update to the newest version and wich ones he/she prefers to keep frozen
> at the same version.

Please try to explain that to my grandma, or maybe you could be lucky with some of my students.

> New users who frequented the forums always got to know what backports
> are pretty fast. And bugzilla is the perfect system for asking for a
> backport, that worked pretty good.

These users are walking to change into intermediate users, they are no longer basic users. This only for the simple fact that they are posting in a technical forum. Let me remind you: 1,300 millions of Hispanics and only 130 votes at the BlogDrake poll.

> I was thinking about writing a proposal as you suggested, but so far I 
> haven't found the time.
> I don't think this is that urgent, since backports only become an issue 
> once we have the first release out, but I will try to write up a 
> proposal well before that.

I'm writing a proposal as Tux99 does, I need find time for finish it and then translate it.

Regards from México
-- 
Fernando Parra <gato2707 at yahoo.com.mx>