[Mageia-dev] Cinnamon

[Joseph Wang]

> This is true, and there is no doubt that we need more resources, but in
> this case it could cost more than it gains. We have had issues in the
> past of the packages for these alternative DEs causing issues for the
> core DEs due to the packages satisfying dep's required by the core packages.

I don't think that cinnamon is ready for Mageia 3.  However if we have
a situation
in which it's impossible to package a new DE even in an experimental setting,
then we have a pretty serious problem.  That locks Mageia to GNOME and KDE,
and GNOME is self-destructing.

The "testing" repository seems like it's a good place to put these
sorts of things.
Or there must be a way of marking a package as "cauldron-only."  We had a
"contrib" section in Mandriva that dealt with that.

The other question is how does Fedora manage to do it.

> So while you may have packaged Cinnamon and tested that *it* works, have
> you tested it in a repository along with all the other packages we have,
> installing e.g. a gnome install and double checking that none of the
> cinnamon packages have been pulled in to satisfy deps (incorrectly)?

chicken meets egg.  If I can check this on my machine, then I can write a
script to check for this.  However, the place where you find this
sorts of issues
is when other people start using the package and finding that it doesn't work.
But that involves making the package available for other people to use.

The two big alternatives to GNOME are cinnamon and MATE, and one nice
thing about cinnamon is that it's relatively non-intrusive.

> Perhaps you have, but the "resources" required to support a new DE is
> not simply on the packaging. It's in the QA and it's in the testing of
> the fallout to other installs when those packages simply exist in the
> repos. This is what often takes the most resources.

Sure, and you don't want that to block mageia 3.

But most of QA and testing involves getting live users to actually run the
packages.  If you don't somehow get the packages out to power users
then things will never get fixed.

> If you are keen to push this through, then I'm afraid you likely will
> have to get involved in discussions about it.

Or I can do things the easy way.  I basically took the Fedora SPEC's
and modified them for Mageia.  I could just as well work on Fedora or
Linux Mint, and then at some point when Mageia wants to the take those
SPEC's, then someone else can port them over.

I just want a nice looking desktop and to have a stable platform that I
can use to do astrophysics hacking.  If I have to spend any non-trivial
effort to get cinnamon packaged in some way that doesn't break the
system, then I'm going to go insane pushing through the 50-100 other
astrophysics packages that I want to add to Mageia.

Now maybe you all don't want me to add 50-100 professional astrophysics
packages to Mageia.  If so, then it's good we had this discussion now :-)
:-) :-)

> Also, if you really do wish to have this supported, then you should
> likely keep on packaging and hopefully find some of the many
> unmaintained packages to adopt and prove that you will be sticking
> around for a while and not abandon maintenance in the future for
> whatever reason.

Unfortunately, I don't think that's going to work.  The trouble is that I'm
doing things out of my "spare time."  The people at my day job can
"persuade" me to show up at work every morning and work regular hours
because they hand me $$$$.  Everything I do outside of work is for love
and not money, and love is fickle.  I'll *try* to do what I can, but I have a
day job and kids, and those come first.

Also, I get annoyed enough trying to climb the corporate ladder in my
day job.  I have to play game after game to get myself in a position
where people will listen to me at work.  Today, I had to put together
some Powerpoints for a "review committee" at work, and tomorrow
there is going to be a meeting, and another meeting, and e-mail discussion
and requirements documents, and project plans.  And in the middle of
all of this, I just sometimes want to scream at the committee.  But I don't
since they pay me $$$$$$$ not to tell them what I really think of them.

But you aren''t paying me............

Now, you may say that this is just "part of life."  It may be "part of Mageia"
but it's certainly not part of "open source," and I can put together useful
things elsewhere without having to go through the damn review committee.
Remember I got these specs by converting Fedora RPM's, and they'll be the
first people I'll go to.  If they don't work, then I'll try a dozen
other distributions,
and if none of those work, I'll start my own.

I suppose it would help if someone tries to "sell" me Mageia.  What is
Mageia, and why should I volunteer to work on it?

The thing is that if it is uncertain whether cinnamon will get into Mageia,
then it's just a waste of time for me to work on it in Mageia.  It would be
more useful for me to work on getting it to work with Fedora, Ubuntu, or
Mint, because I know that it's going to be useful there.