[Mageia-dev] Mageia 3 final set of isos

[AL13N]

Op dinsdag 25 september 2012 01:21:05 schreef andre999:
> Thomas Backlund a écrit :
> > andre999 skrev 24.9.2012 09:57:
> >> Anne Nicolas a écrit :
> >>> Hi there
> >>> 
> >>> So here is the discussion about what isos we should keep or have for
> >>> final release. We had several (many!) proposals on that topics and we
> >>> need to take some decisions.
> >>> 
> >>> Here are some prerequisites I can see for what I can read in comments
> >>> and review about Mageia on the web.
> >>> 
> >>> - provide a full open source software version
> >>> - provide CD iso(s) so that it can be quick to download (people having
> >>> low band-width or paying depending how much they use it)
> >>> - provide live version(s)
> >>> - decrease isos number. QA is just a hell on the set we had for Mageia 2
> >>> - provide localization as large as possible
> >>> - provide isos including major drivers including proprietary one to make
> >>> it easier to install and configure
> >> 
> >> ...
> >> 
> >>> Please add all explanations to your proposal.
> >>> 
> >>> Let say we take one week on this so until 26/09 then we will make a
> >>> final proposal
> >>> 
> >>> Cheers
> >> 
> >> My suggestions :
> >> *Non-live isos*
> >> 1 dual cd with proprietory firmware/drivers
> >> -- based on comments by Alien and others
> >> 
> >> 1 dvd 32-bit with proprietory firmware/drivers
> > 
> > you do realize that this is a no-go as we already have problem fitting
> > even LXDE on dual isos (as you only have ~350M / arch for rpms and
> > installer, so trying to load a lot of extra fw and drivers on wont work.

iinm the dual-arch CD just needs a small few nonfree things, like hardware 
raid cards and a few network firmwares. but then the rescue also needs ip (for 
vlan) and brctl (for bridging)... (in all actuallity, i'm prepared here to 
drop all of small parts of LXDE and/or other graphic stuff).

perhaps if we can unlink a few more cycles, we get enough free space...


> > And yes, we already hardlink noarch packages
> 
> For the dual cd I was just going on comments by others, but I can
> understand the space problem.  I wasn't anticipating multiple desktops
> for that iso.  Whatever works for those who use it, and those who create
> it, is fine by me.
> 
> It has occured to me that maybe it would be better to have 2 cds, one
> each for 32-bit and 64-bit.  That would make it a lot easier to find
> enough space, and maybe even make it simpler to create ?  It would add
> another cd, but maybe not increase the workload.
> Testing should be about the same.
> (And carrying 2 cds in a pocket instead of one shouldn't be a problem.)
> 
> As for the 32-bit dvd with proprietory firmware and drivers where
> reliable free aren't available, I think that that is important.
> 
> >> -- we could ask at the beginning something like
> >> "This disc can install proprietory firmware or drivers needed by your
> >> hardware.  Do you want to :
> >> 1) Install such software automatically,
> >> 2) Ask for each such software, or
> >> 3) Never install such software."
> >> 
> >> That way users can accept or avoid such software as they wish.
> >> At the same time, users will never be stuck.  This will be particularly
> >> useful for new users, especially those who found the dvd in a magazine.
> >> Also users preferring no non-free, including firmware or drivers, could
> >> simply resinstall accepting certain firmware/drivers after finding that
> >> their hardware doesn't work properly.
> > 
> > As with all suggestions to mod the installer, we still need someone to
> > do the work, not just expect that "someone" will do it...
> 
> True.
> If all installers, and not just the live installers, carry the
> proprietory firmware/drivers, maybe that will alleviate some of the
> workload ?
> BTW, I'm sure that we all appreciate your important contributions on this.
> 
> 
> [...]
> 
> >> *Live isos*
> >> 1 live (installable like current dvds) dvd 64-bit with
> >> kde/gnome/lxde/xfce and all localizations, and the proprietory
> >> firmware/drivers now found on live cds.
> >> -- variation of suggestion by Sander
> >> -- this replaces both the current 64-bit dvd + 8 live cds
> >> -- it seems much less likely that 64-bit users will have the download
> >> bandwidth problems of many 32-bit users.  (If I'm not mistaken.)
> > 
> > You are kidding, right ?
> > Just because they have a 64bit hw, it does not mean they have accees
> > to cheap bw since that depends on where they live, what isp they have,
> > and so on...
> 
> I agree that having 64-bit hw doesn't necessarily mean one has cheap bw.
>   Just thought that it was more likely than many with 32-bit hw.
> In any case, if they do have a problem, they could always use the 32-bit
> version.  But the converse is not true.
> 
> >> -- users with 64-bit machines could still use a 32-bit live cd if they
> >> wish.
> >> -- This should save a lot of problems testing, as many potential testers
> >> don't have 64-bit machines available.
> >> 
> >> 8 live cds 32-bit; kde or gnome; 4 localisation groups
> >> -- users with 32-bit machines are more likely to have bandwidth
> >> problems, or to not have dvd writers.
> >> 
> >> This totals 11 isos, down from 19. (reduced by 8 live cds.)
> >> 
> >> Note that I didn't include an iso without proprietory firmware/drivers,
> >> as with appropriate warnings on those with, an iso without would be
> >> redundant.  Just unnecessarily increasing the testing workload.
> >> 
> >> Note also that it would be useful to have a file in the iso directory
> >> listing the languages available on the various live cds.  (Lacking for
> >> mga2, but did exist for mandriva.)
> > 
> > Not so... every livecd is has a matching *.lang:
> > 
> > http://mirrors.kernel.org/mageia/iso/2/Mageia-2-LiveCD-GNOME-Europe1-Ameri
> > cas-i586-CD/Mageia-2-LiveCD-GNOME-Europe1-Americas-i586-CD.langs
> My mirror doesn't carry the *.lang files (mageia.webconquest.com in Canada)
> Aren't they supposed to carry all the iso-related files, if they carry
> isos ?
> 
> > And this page lists the langs on the isos too:
> > http://www.mageia.org/en/downloads/
> > 
> >> A final point - to me it is really important to be able to upgrade an
> >> existing installation, instead of forcing a clean install.  This allows
> > 
> > DVDs and netinstalls already support upgrades...
> > (DVDs will still always have some problem unless you add online medias,
> > 
> >   as we cant fit all of the online repos on the DVDs)
> 
> Just made the point since there has been some discussion which seemed to
> suggest changing that.
> As long as one can do a release upgrade install without internet access,
> redoing an update on line afterwards is not problematic.  It works quite
> well.
> 
> > The mga3 upgrade path will need more work due to UsrMove, but it
> > should still be possible...
> 
> Hopefully.  UsrMove was a good idea.
> Maybe users with /usr on / could do UsrMove before upgrade to mga3 ?
> 
> >> the user to more easily keep their current configuration, and in some
> >> cases essential drivers/firmware not on the iso.  Referring to the dvds
> >> and the dual cd, and not the live cds, which are not primarily for
> >> installation.
> > 
> > I guess you mean livecds _are_ meant for installation, not upgrades
> 
> Right :)
> But I was also thinking that there will be users that just boot a live
> cd to see what it looks like, then actually install using a dvd, or
> maybe use the live cd just for a review (without installing).
> 
> > --
> > 
> > Thomas