[Mageia-dev] 3.0 release - some initial notes; failure

Tue Jan 8 12:41:29 CET 2013

Hi Liam,

let me reply to your E-mail - not necessarily disagreeing.

On Mon, 07 Jan 2013 02:46:39 -0500
Liam R E Quin <liam at holoweb.net> wrote:

> Tried installing 3.0 beta over a Mandriva Cooker system today.
> Mageia-3-beta1-x86_64-DVD.iso

Can Mandriva Cooker be upgraded to Mageia 3? I don't think it can be (due to
Mandriva's switch to rpm5). Or do you mean you reformatted the relevant
partitions and installed a new system?

> 
> Some notes. Mostly about problems because I never got to see a working
> system, so the tone is probably more negative than I'd like.
> 

No problem with that for me - bring on the negativity, I say, because that will
help us improve the program. Also Lawrence Lessig's anecdote which I quoted at:

http://teachingopensource.org/index.php/How_to_start_contributing_to_or_using_Open_Source_Software#Some_Mental_Preparation

(short URL - http://xrl.us/biknkf ).

> 
> On boot, there was a long delay followed by "Loading program" and a
> progress bar appearing and disappearing again almost before I had time
> to read the message. This didn't seem optimal.

I see. What are your system's specifications? I think I usually install from a
CD (just to have a working system) and then install more packages using urpmi. I
am downloading the DVD .iso now and will try it in a VirtualBox VM later to see
if I can reproduce any problems.

> 
> Choice of keyboard - there was a link to wikipedia in the Help text, but
> it gave me an error that there was no network. There are two entries for
> US Keyboard with no obvious reason, and a third for US International
> (which I chose since I'm not in the US :-)) 

Sounds like a bug or at least a problem in the installer. Can you file a bug
for it on https://bugs.mageia.org/ ?

> 
> I have 2 disk drives. the installer wanted to use the spare space on my
> Windows drive, when the other drive already had Linux. Yes, I could
> choose from the drop-down, but it wasn't clear that I was choosing where
> to put Mageia. Suggest add,
> Multiple disk drives found. Choose which one you want to use for the
> main Mageia system.

Sounds like a good enhancement.

> 
> The disk was formatted. That was actually what I wanted, in this case,
> but please add a warning that data will be lost - most humans on the
> planet won't know that.

Yes, true. Of course, you cannot expect your users to read:

http://www.joelonsoftware.com/uibook/chapters/fog0000000062.html

Or like my Technion lecturer once noted in one of the first talks in our
Computer Graphics course, which taught us about designing for usability (from
the P.O.V. of this book -
http://www.shlomifish.org/philosophy/books-recommends/#design_of_everyday_things
) a typical session can go like that:

User: delete "My_most_important_work.doc"
Computer: are you sure? [Yes] [No]
User: Yes!
Computer "My_most_important_work.doc" deleted.
User: damn!

But I approve of issuing a warning before that, or somehow preventing this
from happening.

> 
> There's no indication of how long the formatting will take, or how much
> has been done. I'll leave it running for an hour or two (it's a 250G
> SATA hard drive) and see if it finishes, or maybe it crashed.
> Please add a note that this may take a long time, preferably with an
> OK/Cancel/Skip since (1) it wasn't needed here, and (2) users may well
> give it a minute or so and then move on to the next Linux distribution
> on the magazine, saying "Mageia hung my computer, it's crap."
> 
> Suggest progress bar or at least some quotes from Moliére.

Heh. Well, formatting normally did not take too long for me, at least not in
its fast formatting mode. But maybe a progress bar will be doable.

> 
> Note: eventually the bad block scan started giving a progress percentage
> on another virtual terminal, but most users won't find that, of course,
> even if they wait half an hour or more for it to begin.

Oh, bad block scan. :-(. It should be displayed in the graphical installer.

> 
> I'm assuming the graphics and ugly font are not final. If they are, the
> pink stripes look like an error. Maybe caused by running my monitor
> (1920x1200/"deep colour") in 800x600 16-bit mode.

I'll see if it happens to me in the installer.

> 
> The long list of packages being installed - would be nicer to show the
> name of the current package, and its description, and more slowly to
> show a more detailed description of just one program.

By default the installer does not display the names of the packages installed I
think - just a progress bar.

> 
> If there was a clear and obvious option to choose the LCD's native
> resolution, a font like Matthew Carter's Bitstream Charter Italic would
> look more sophisticated and also get more information on a line.
> 

Is it an open font.

> Choosing a desktop - help said "broken link"
> 

Shouldn't the help be included inside the installer's media.

> Choosing a desktop - please add versions, not just KDE, GNOME, Other.
> 

I'm not sure versions are a good idea because they may be confusing. I'm also
not sure many users who start with Linux will understand the difference between
KDE, GNOME or whatever, so maybe we should pick one or the other by default.

> Also, I might want both KDE and GNOME installed, so I don't want to
> choose just one and not the other. If I'll get a chance to install more
> desktops later in the installer, please say so more clearly, not buried
> in help (once the link to help is fixed)...

Yes.

> 
> The installer seems much slower than it used to be, but maybe that's
> changes in rpm? Three hours to install packages is a long time. Although
> having said that, maybe the estimates were just wrong.

How strange. I was able to install Mageia 2 in a VM (from the Dual CD though)
in a few minutes.

> 
> At the end, several hours later, the DVD is ejected and the system tries
> to reboot...
> 
> PANIC cannot mount proc on /proc! Compile the kernel with
> CONFIG_PROC_FS!
> 
> Hmm. Well, I saw something go by about this on the mailing list so maybe
> I can fix it without another 7-hour download of the DVD image.
> 
> Overall, though, the installer needs a huge injection of "slickness".
> It's_almost_ there, but in graphic design "almost" doesn't get you a
> cigar.

That's true. By the way “GUI Design" is not graphic design. You can design good
GUI without being a competent graphics designer. Designing web sites or Web
UI with their stylish look and everything should look different than every
other site, is a different issue, and from my experience, some web designs tend
to be considered outdated, and some users (though different ones each time) will
complain that they don't like your style. You cannot please all the people all
the time.

Regards,

	Shlomi Fish

> 
> Liam
> 
> 
> 

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