[Mageia-dev] Please test: initscripts+systemd in updates_testing

Colin Guthrie mageia at colin.guthr.ie
Sun Oct 30 00:16:49 CEST 2011

'Twas brillig, and Thomas Backlund at 27/10/11 15:12 did gyre and gimble:
> Sander Lepik skrev 27.10.2011 17:01:
>> 27.10.2011 16:45, Thomas Backlund kirjutas:
>>> Sander Lepik skrev 27.10.2011 16:07:
>>>> 27.10.2011 15:33, Thomas Backlund kirjutas:
>>>>> My laptop hangs on shutdown.
>>>> My desktop has quite a long delay before it turns off (maybe even 5
>>>> minutes).
>>> Ok, so thats a showstopper that need to be fixed.
>> Yes.
>>>> With dracut i got my system booting (soft raid1 + lvm (also i had to
>>>> move /usr under /)).
>>> And so is this. if dracut or systemd requires /usr to be under / then
>>> it will _never_ be default.
>> It's systemd. It has some libs in /usr/lib that it needs for
>> udev.service (if i remember correctly) and for some reason udev.service
>> is needed for mounting services. Tho' if it fails and switches into
>> rescue console i can manually mount /usr and make it continue booting.
>> Maybe we can reorder those services somehow.
> Then we need to move those libs to /lib(64)

There is quite serious talk about deprecating /lib, /bin and /sbin and
basically anything that is not in /usr (with exceptions for /home /root,
/etc and a few others). Of course there are various flames about this
idea (earth will collapse into sun etc.) but it's actually surprisingly
well received thus far IMO.

Also, keep in mind that you're talking about moving a *lot* to / here...
all the PCI/USB databases, all the udev setup, any application that udev
might run in it's rules.... I won't reiterate what is written in the
link Olav already provided, but suffice to say the problem is neither
new, not specific to systemd. It's just being highlighted by systemd.
Please keep this in mind when commenting on this topic.

>>> That's just plain idiotic.
>> I somewhat agree. But even Fedora is suggesting not to have separate
>> /usr :(
> That does not make it less idiotic. IIRC they employ the systemd creator
> so...

But that doesn't make the idea any more or less idiotic.

The reasons stated (and this discussion happened many months ago) are
all well understood and documented in the link provided by Olav.

It is NOT a systemd problem. It's a problem we have RIGHT NOW too, it's
just that most setups are easy enough to work around by waiting and
doing this sequentially which slows down the whole boot process. We've
solved similar problems in the past by moving things to /lib but it's
just a sticking plaster, not a real fix.

If you have constructive criticism as to the reasons why this is now
warned about specifically in systemd, then this is perfectly valid but
should be done in context rather than simply calling it "idiotic"
without any further clarification.

And systemd is not saying that /usr cannot be on a separate partition.
It's just saying that it cannot realistically be the job of the init
system to mount it, it has to be handled at early boot in the initramfs,
not by init. The reasons why this is the case are documented very clearly.

Hope this helps clarify this discussion without going over old ground again.



Colin Guthrie

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