[Mageia-dev] Mageia 3 final set of isos

[andre999]

Thomas Backlund a écrit :
> zezinho skrev 24.9.2012 12:52:
>> Em 24-09-2012 09:55, Thomas Backlund escreveu:
>>> Just because they have a 64bit hw, it does not mean they have accees
>>> to cheap bw since that depends on where they live, what isp they have,
>>> and so on...
>>>
>>
>> Well, we can't keep the same service to users without keeping the same
>> number of medias. And we NEED to reduce this number. So let's only
>> decide if DVD keeps without nonfree or not. A poll? Both choices will
>> keep the same numbers of medias.
>>
>
> Sorry, my response got somewhat easy to misunderstand :)
>
> I meant it only as a response to the:
> "it seems much less likely that 64-bit users will have the download
> bandwidth problems of many 32-bit users."
>
>> As far as I can see, the easiest way to REDUCE media number is to switch
>> Live medias from 700MB to at most DVD size :
>>
>> - It removes the different localized version, it is 40% medias less.
>> - It does not remove ALL CD-R solutions, as we long as keep DualArch and
>> boot.iso media.
>> - It fits in most current USB keys (4GB is the lowest size I can see in
>> shops).
>>
>
> But many people have only 1-2GB sticks they could re-use ...
> Not everyone can go out and buy new hw all the time...
>
> And the downside of getting bigger live images is that they
> do get slower to boot...
>
>> Yes, it removes supports for some old hardware solutions, which I
>> install often, but we can't keep testing 19 medias. We have still lack
>> of QA people!
>>
>
> Yes, I know... I've been doing ISO qa :)
> we do need to reduce the media sets...
> which is why I earlier in this thread suggested:
> - 1 i586 GNOME english liveCD ("works everywhere")
> - 1 i586 KDE english   liveCD ("works everywhere")

We should consider the target users of live CDs.
If it is only for the purpose of reviews (by english speakers), then 
downloading 2 cds for testing in english only is fine.
But if we want to introduce other users to mageia, many of whom would be 
more confortable in another language, if they speak english at all, it 
would be very useful to keep the other languages.
At least for the i586 cds.
(x64 users can always use the i586 cds if they don't want to use a dvd)

>
> - 1 i586 GNOME all-lang liveDVD
> - 1 i586 KDE   all-lang liveDVD
>
> - 1 x86_64 GNOME all-lang liveDVD
> - 1 x86_64 KDE   all-lang liveDVD

Would producing live dvd instead of a non-live dvd take much more space 
?  My impression is no.
If that is correct, then we could make just one live all-desktop live 
DVD for each of i586 and x86_64.
Unless you think that the current non-live DVDs are missing important a 
lot of important packages ?
>
> That would bring the live* media down from 16 -> 6

Simply dropping 64-bit live cds, without any other changes, would reduce 
isos from 19 -> 11.
Without much loss, as those with 64-bit hw could always use 32-bit live 
cds, and then install with 64-bit media.
Although it would be better if a 64-bit live dvd were available.
>
>
> And as data point...
> With current mga2 livecd package config, building a liveDVD for one
> arch/DE results in a liveDVD image with ~ 1GB image size
>
This is your area of expertise.  Is it possible to reduce this ?  By 
maybe dynamically installing various packages needed ?
What is the size needed for live cds ?  (Obviously less, since cds can't 
be more than 750M.)
>
> If we squash more than one DE on the same liveDVD there will be some
> questions:
>
> - Which DM will we use ? GDM? KDM? XDM? ...?
>
> Then we get the complaints:
> - "why should I need to download KDE stuff when I want GNOME"?
> - "why should I need to download  GNOME stuff when I want KDE"?
> - "why ..."

So how does that differ from the current dvds ?
Isn't the idea of live isos to test and explore mageia ?
A live dvd would make it easier for users to look at various desktops 
available.
Once one knows what one wants, a live iso isn't needed any more, 
particularly since running a live iso is necessarily much slower than 
running an installed system.
As well, even once one knows the desktop prefered, prefered packages 
don't necessarily belong to that particular desktop.

>
> and the technical side:
> - stuffing more than one DE on liveDVDs means altering build process,
>    also giving more problem for little if any gain....
> - every DE on liveDVDs still need to be validated, so no less testing/QA
> - it means testing G/K/XDM starting GNOME/KDE/... so no less testing/QA
> - ...

The same testing, but less downloading for testers.
>
> --
>
> Thomas
>
>

-- 
André