[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ?

Thomas Backlund tmb at iki.fi
Sun Sep 26 15:01:25 CEST 2010


Giuseppe Ghibò skrev 26.9.2010 15:25:
> 2010/9/26 Thomas Backlund <tmb at iki.fi <mailto:tmb at iki.fi>>
>
>     Giuseppe Ghibò skrev 26.9.2010 02:09:
>
>
>         Not exactly. I'm not talking in just using -march=<something> but in
>         also pushing -mfpmath=sse -msse (and maybe -msse2) , which should be
>         much more than JUST 1-2% (1-2% is usually the benchmark
>         tolerance)...
>
>
>     Well, here is a simple fact.
>
>     Yes, going for i686 + SSE2 would/could give some benefits,
>
>     BUT
>
>     It would close support for all theese:
>     - Intel i586 (all)
>
>     - Intel Pentium Pro
>     - Intel Pentium II
>     - Intel Pentium III (Including some Pentium D)
>     - 32-bit AMD Athlon
>     - AMD Geode
>     - VIA C3
>     - Transmeta Crusoe
>
>     So, thats not an option.
>
>
> As I said I would see someone with such hardware, taking a CD of latest
> MDV or cooker and try to install to do something and do a report.
>

No point in trying the Cooker installer, as its currently broken.

Last time I tried (around 2010.0), I had no problem using the textmode 
installer, wich is the most lightway method of installing we have.

> That  reminds me also one suggestion. If someone has old hardware that
> not in use anymore then could be donated to who is willing to test the
> latest MDV|Mageia on it.

I will next week, as I still think we have some old i586 stored at work...

> It's not ironic (I think this is a
> brainstorming), or I'm not kidding, but there could be an wiki hardware
> section for that. For old hardware schools and institutes or
> corporations have even to pay for dismantling:  such hardware is usually
> recycled for:
>
>    a) extracting gold (there are nowadays new chemical processes that
> found more affordable to extract gold from old PCs than from mines)
>    b) avoid pollutions with the lead, plastics they contain, if thrown
> in the dumpster etc. (note there isn't just the CPU, but also CRT
> monitors, printers, disks, etc.)
>

     c) keep donating the old harware to schools that take anything
        they can get (so no dismantling).


> IIRC there is a EU law that if you buy a new PC the vendor is obeyed to
> retire the old one and take care for the dismantling.
>

Nope.
But there is a "recycling fee" in the price of new hw, so should be able 
to get tid of old hw without any cost...

>
>
>     Now what about only i686 + SSE then?
>     It would still close support for all theese:
>     - Intel i586 (all)
>     - Some Intel Pentium D
>     - 32-bit AMD Athlon < XP/MP
>     - AMD Geode < NX
>     - VIA C3 (Samuel* and Ezra)
>     - Transmeta Crusoe
>
>     So, still not an option.
>
>
>     Now what about only i686 then?
>     It would still close support for all theese:
>     - Intel i586 (all)
>     - Some Intel Pentium D
>     - AMD Geode < NX
>     - VIA C3 (Samuel* and Ezra)
>     - Transmeta Crusoe
>
>     So, still not an option.
>
>
>     And then to point out some other facts:
>
>     Some of the benefits are already accounted for like you noted earlier:
>
>     "Of course we shouldn't forget that the MDV had already a system for
>     providing optimized (look at /usr/lib/sse2 for instance) version of
>     libraries according to instruction set supported."
>
>     And many applications capable of utilizing sse2 and other
>     instruction sets already have runtime detection support, so no
>     problem there.
>
>
>     So, where does that leave us?
>
>     Simple.
>     For 32bit installs, we will still support i586 as base.
>     For 64bit installs, it's simple as x86_64 is SSE2 by default.
>
>
>     Now, _if_ the Mageia community gets enough developers to think of
>     _and_ support a "light netbook/legacy edition", then maybe we can
>     think of doing a i586/i686 split, but for now we will use i586 as base.
>
>
>     And many of the users wanting i686/sse2 already have hardware
>     capable of running x86_64, so that's what they should do, as there
>     is where the future is.
>
>
> You are forgetting a midrange. Which is the midrange of not the latest
> hardware but a memory around 2-4GB RAM. In that set a 32bit OS is still
> consuming 30-50% fewer memory than 64bit.

I'm not forgetting them...
The current i586 base supports them
We also provide i686 kernels for them (desktop and server)
We have the "/usr/lib/sse2" and "apps with runtime detection support" 
mentioned above.

> As I said to complete the circle it is needed to provide on a per
> --target|dialect .rpm package for the kernel as well as for the glibc.
> We have just to ensure the targets and fix compilation errors (though
> that wouldn't resolve the problem of bloatware distro).
>

--
Thomas


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