[Mageia-discuss] Handbooks - the lot

Wolfgang Bornath molch.b at googlemail.com
Sun Mar 11 13:14:25 CET 2012

2012/3/11 Dimitrios Glentadakis <dglent at gmail.com>:
> Le 11 mars 2012 12:15, "Wolfgang Bornath" <molch.b at googlemail.com> a écrit :
>> 2012/3/11 Luc Menut <lmenut at free.fr>:
>> > Le 10/03/2012 23:49, Oliver Burger a écrit :
>> >>
>> >> Am 10.03.2012 23:46, schrieb Juan Luis Baptiste:
>> >
>> > [...]
>> >>>
>> >>> Right now, the splitting of the handbook packages will use the same
>> >>> bandwidth as before. As Anssi said, before the handbooks came bundled
>> >>> with the owner package, so they were also being installed. So
>> >>> bandwidth wise, is still the same as before the splitting.
>> >>>
>> >> I haven't looked into it, but perhaps we could install those handbooks
>> >> as Suggests instead of Requires (or is it already done that way?).
>> >> Then people wanting to save bandwidth could just install using
>> >> "--no-suggests".
>> >
>> >
>> > I don't agree. Handbooks are fully part of a kde install; they should be
>> > installed, and shouldn't be removed. A kde install without handbooks is
>> > a
>> > damaged kde install. Do you think that the kde doc team will continue to
>> > work on handbooks if each distrib don't install its work?
>> > That's why, personally I think the exact opposite; each component should
>> > *requires* its handbook (but probably it won't work with LiveCD).
>> I don't agree. You seem to first take for granted that a user of the
>> KDE desktop also uses all the applications and second you mistake
>> "good to have" for "must have". I'm using KDE but only few KDE
>> applications - so why do I need a handbook for kppp or knode or kmail
>> when I don't even install these applications? I would happily
>> de-install such handbooks as I regularly unmark grub-doc and similar
>> packages from installation.
>> In your previous reply to Juergen you also showed that you
>> misunderstood his wish for Mageia documentation. It is good and
>> important that documentation is available if needed. But it must not
>> be forced on those who don't want/need it.
>> I may add that I have been involved in documentation writing and
>> translating for almost 7 years. But I never thought that users must
>> use it if they don't need it.
>> --
>> wobo
> I agree that documentation has to be available with the application i use.
> While i use the program and i need more infos i press F1. If the handbook it
> is not available what i will have ? A message informs me that the doc is
> missing or it has to be installed manualy?
> As when you get any product it comes with its manual, i believe that the
> handbook of an application is a must have, and an application should never
> be installed without its documentation.

You are right with the criterium "an application I use". But here we
are talking about handbooks of every single little KDE app being
forced upon the user, whether he wants/needs it or not.
Same as the examples grub-doc or qt-doc - an average user will never
need them and he can unmark them in package selection..

As for KDE I strongly suggest to have handbooks not required but all
KDE handbooks in one package, to be installed by default on a standard
KDE system but to be selectable in individual package selection - just
like with the other handbooks (Gimp, qt, etc.).


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